Moscow - Москва - Moskau / Russia

Moscow - Москва - Moskau / Russia

Posts 1-8 of 8
  • Chris Helmbrecht
    Chris Helmbrecht    Premium Member   Group moderator   Ambassador
    The company name is only visible to registered members.
    A German Opinion on Putin
    Most of the Germans I talk to don't have a clear understanding of what is going on in the East and Russia especially. Many of them still live in the "cold war" and for others Russia is a "Wild East" dominated by the mafia and drunken alcoholics.

    Spiegel is one of the larger German Magazines, published weekly from Hamburg. It used to have a leftist touch, but got much more centered (which is my personal opinion). Spiegel is mostly writing against Putin. It is very rare that they support Putins politics, but it happens occasionally.

    You can check Spiegel's website for free and it also has an English version:

    http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/

    There is an interesting article about Schroeder and Putin in today’s issue (about Ukraine):
    http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,330354,...

    These links may not work anymore after a certain period, since Spiegel moves them into an archive and one has to pay to read them.
    This post was modified on 30 Nov 2004 at 02:47 pm.
    • 30 Nov 2004, 2:29 pm
  • Simon Lorenz
    Simon Lorenz
    The company name is only visible to registered members.
    Re: A German Opinion on Putin
    well i may not be a tipical german, so i do have an opinion on putin. but i must support your observation that most germans (and other western people) have no clue whats going on over there in big russia, including many expats which live in there in expat homes not speaking a word of russian and buying even their milk at stockmans.
    my opinion shifted from being a pro putin, as most of us were in the beginning, to a putin critic. in the beginning he was an amazing turnaround after boriz. western industry regained perspective in russia and started to think more sencere about east expansion. but now wladimir has besome infected by the illness of power, combined with russian historic experience and a kgb backround. result is, that he thinks about leading this country until he is a grey old patriarch. all democratic aspects like free press or opposition is seen as a threat to this goal. and to make everything even more sure for the future he supports all russia-oriented patriarch friends in the gus states. concerning some of them this can be evaluated as a clear crime (e.g. lukashenko)
    so even though he is opening the market and letting foreingers bring their valutas in, he actually is stepping backwards in a steady pace. the more i see of this development the less i feel the wish to go and work in russia after my studies. and this is going to happen in the long run with most foreigners. so in the mid run future russia is probably once again going to be isolated together with some dubios gangster states. to bad russia...
    simon
    This post was modified on 02 Dec 2004 at 02:57 pm.
    • 01 Dec 2004, 09:34 am
  • Chris Helmbrecht
    Chris Helmbrecht    Premium Member   Group moderator   Ambassador
    The company name is only visible to registered members.
    Putin, Russia and the West.
    I have a slightly different opinion about Putin and Russia’s future. Putin hasn’t changed that much since he got into power. I think what has changed are the times. We are in the process of a reorganizing the world-order and Russia is trying to get it's share. No doubt there are hardliners around/behind Putin who still dream of a “Great Russia” in the East and they don’t like the idea of a partnership or dependency with Europe. These people are old KBG and you can “feel” them and their directions in the information politics while drama’s like Beslan, the two plane crashes this summer or the submarine accident. Just look at the media policy and you feel being put back into Soviet Union and Pravda times.

    Putin is walking a very thin line. On one side he has to please the people who put him in power and back him (I just say the FSB organization, who I think is in control of Russia), on the other he has to defend himself against the Oligarchs who slowly try to take over and get involved into politics, against a gentlemen’s agreement he has setup with them when he came into power. One thing is clear, the Olligarchs are not doing this for democratic reasons, but to be able to cash out on what they have gained in the past years (or should I say stolen from the Russian people) and to get their hands on more foreign funds that will stream into Russia as investments and support (in the case of an opening towards Europe).

    And of course one should not forget the general public. Russia is still suffering. Only in Moscow and some other larger cities life is starting to become bearable and even there, most of the people cannot afford a normal life. I just met a gynecologist who is getting paid !!!! $70/month and lives in the suburbs of Moscow with a 6 year old son. How can you survive like that? Sooner or later the average people will get even more pissed of at the new rich Russians and start doing something about the big difference between rich and poor. This will make Russia a very unstable place. The only way to avoid this is to build up a middle class, which is one of Putin’s objectives. He seems to be successful in the cities, but not the regions. People start revolutions, if they have nothing to loose anymore. Most of Russia is beyond that point, but Russians are a used to suffer and have great patience.

    So I ask you, what is the alternative? Do you want an Oligarch as a president changing the laws for his own good and profit (like in Italy ;-) or do you want a radical like Zhirinovsky, who is getting more and more followers? I don’t see any alternative and think Putin is still good for Russia. Most of us Westerners and even Russians don’t see the complicated situation Putin is in and how careful he has to balance in order not to fall off on one side or the other (while walking this thin line).

    Schroeder understands this situation and supports Putin. Not only because Putin is the only one being able to walk that walk on very thin ice, but also because Schroeder sees great opportunities between Germany, Europe and Russia. Russia needs to change its old world power thinking and hook up with one of the two, Europe or the US. Europe is definitely the better partner for Russia and both parties can gain from this partnership. Just see the newly partnership between ESA and the Russian Space Agency. A Russian-European partnership is on both areas financially and strategically useful. Russia needs foreign investment and we need their military firepower in order to become one of the few global players in the future, besides of gaining new markets for European products.

    The process of change has long begun and it is not stoppable anymore (for Russia). Maybe they could have changed the cards when intervening into Georgia’s Rose-Revolution. They didn’t and that was the end of Russia as we know it today. Ukraine will fall (to the West) and Belarus will follow soon. Russia will be left, having to make the move towards the West. The people who hold the money in Russia, the Oligarchs, have a strong interest in that move. Their preferred partner would be the US, though.

    Last, let me give you a statement that I always get to hear when discussing with my Russian friends about politics: “Do you think you can rule such a big country as Russia with democracy? Only 15 years after communism has fallen? Think twice!”.

    Again, that is my personal opinion (being a frequent traveler between Europe, the US and Russia). I may be wrong, but that’s what I observe these days.

    Post your opinion here. I think we are especially interested in a Russian opinion. Right?
    • 02 Dec 2004, 10:24 am
  • Simon Lorenz
    Simon Lorenz
    The company name is only visible to registered members.
    Re: Putin, Russia and the West.
    your last argument is definitely decisive - most probably russia cant be managed by a political system as in germany. but e.g. an american system with strong states is probably not the right thing atm, because regional lords will establish themselves and sooner or later claim independency from russia.
    i do think as well, that putin is the best solution atm, especially when seeing the options. just liek you, i think the olligarchs who were created by jelzin are also a threat to russias future and definitely to the politcal stability. BUT, putin is heading into a belarus simular direction, and that cant be. if you forbid free press, your people wont develop mentally. russias people have to learn to think critically, something they werent allowed for so long. and now putin is trying to bring this situation back. AND, it is a way to regain power from the oligarchs by destroying their companies and bringing them back into state control (which is okay in my eyes, when it comes to the major resources a country has). BUT it is not the way to destroy chodorkowskis life just to keep him away from opposition. that is a illtreatment of human rights - especially if you take into consideration, that the same puppet players who put putin into power also gave chodorkowksi the power over bis chunks of russias resources.
    so i think putin is good for russia, as long as he doesnt loose sight of democracy. because that might scare the foreign investors and keep the russian public in their ducking position from communist times, which makes any mental development impossible.
    simon
    This post was modified on 02 Dec 2004 at 02:57 pm.
    • 02 Dec 2004, 2:21 pm
  • Chris Helmbrecht
    Chris Helmbrecht    Premium Member   Group moderator   Ambassador
    The company name is only visible to registered members.
    Re^2: Putin, Russia and the West.
    Hello Simon. I like arguing with you. It’s very constructive. Just would like to hear some Russian opinion, but obviously they are too busy with work 

    As I said. I think Putin is walking a very thin line and sometimes its not clear to me, if it is his direction or other people around/behind him (like in the case of the press). You are right about the media and you can see it very much these days with the Ukraine election and the Chechnya conflict. There is mostly information from one side (Russian view), but that can also result out of the Russian culture itself. Many of the “normal” people, I am not talking about the intelligenzia, are very nationalistic. They still want to think of Russia as a super power, leading the game and they seem to have a hard time understanding that the Soviet Union broke apart, because the country has been almost bankrupt. Run down by the system and its people.

    They don’t seem to understand that there is a new world order developing, which is not about one country, but which club you belong to. Russians want it the Russian way. Meaning they want their own club and don’t understand that they are not able to finance this (at this point) and that most of the people around them don’t want to be in their club anymore (because of the past and because Russia has nothing to offer to them). Russia itself is a poor country (Yes, I know many of you don’t want to hear that) and needs to get back on its feed and get its act together (Oligarchs, Mafia, FSB and the almost none existing middle class).

    And yes, I know about Russia’s great oil fields, the gas and all the metals, but what good does it do, if the money goes to a few rich guys and not to the people, who could really need it (talking about paying taxes and getting the money down to the citizens).

    Well, do we have a solution? Nope. I don’t think Europe has the solution or right way, but I think we can find one together. For for this Russia (and the mentality of the people) needs to change. One may say you will not get it changed so fast. Communism is still in the peoples heads, but you can see in other countries that they are changing. There are lots of problems in these countries as well, but I think they are on a way building a new Europe with us. Russia should be with us. Maybe not as a member, but as a strong partner.

    About Khodorkovsky. This is my personal opinion. The man had a gentlemen’s agreement with Putin and he broke it. Not only this, he thought he is strong enough to go against Putin and his club. I’d say that it is a typical case of someone thinking he is the most powerful person of Russia (and the world). He could have gone in exile (like other Oligarchs) and go against Putin from there, but he stayed and suffers the consequences now. “Groessenwahn” is the word in German. I don’t know the English translation.
    By the way, did you know that the Putin gang is negotiating with ENI (Berlusconis Italian Oil company - http://www.eni.it/ ) about buying parts of Yukos? That’s what I have just heard at a Dinner last night from someone who is (still) at Yukos.
    • 06 Dec 2004, 6:30 pm
  • Mark A. Nessbach
    Mark A. Nessbach
    The company name is only visible to registered members.
    Re^3: Putin, Russia and the West.
    Might be interesting for all German speakers to read the following excellent article, published in Cicero in November 2004:

    http://www.cicero.de/97.php?ress_id=1&item=290
    This post was modified on 15 Feb 2005 at 05:35 pm.
    • 15 Feb 2005, 4:56 pm
  • Chris Helmbrecht
    Chris Helmbrecht    Premium Member   Group moderator   Ambassador
    The company name is only visible to registered members.
    Re^4: Putin, Russia and the West.
    Very good article. Brings it down to the point (I think).

    Here is another interesting book, also in German:

    Wer herrscht in Russland? von Margareta Mommsen
    "Der Kreml und die Schatten der Macht"
    erschienen im Verlag C.H. Beck
    ISBN 3 406 51118x

    Es geht von Jelzin bis Putin und gibt eine sachliche Analyse der Lage zwischen 1989 bis heute.
    • 15 Feb 2005, 6:41 pm
  • Post visible to registered members