Anti Spam Community

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Jan Welker Premium Member
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email2image.com
Hello,

I would like to present you one of my web projects.
On email2image.com you can convert your email address to an image or to JavaScript to avoid spam.

What's your opinion about this site?
http://email2image.com
- 28 Mar 2008, 10:05 am
Jan Welker wrote: > Hello, > > I would like to present you one of my web projects. > On email2image.com you can convert your email address to an image or > to JavaScript to avoid spam. > > What's your opinion about this site? > http://email2image.com
Nils Decker Premium Member Group moderator
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Re: email2image.com
Jan Welker wrote:
Hello,

I would like to present you one of my web projects. On email2image.com you can convert your email address to an image or to JavaScript to avoid spam.

Hi Jan, I do like the project. Seems like an easy-to-use tool. However, it is not quite true that spam-bots are not able to convert these images into "spammable" email-addresses. Basically, the technology you're applying there, can relatively easy be reversed. Our spamfilter for example, uses the same method just reversed, to convert images or javascript in an email message, to a readable text. That happens on the content filter level.

However, it does make it somewhat more tricky to extract huge amounts of email addresses. On the other hand, it also makes it more complicated for your legitimate senders/ customers, to send you an email.

What's your opinion about this site?
http://email2image.com
- 28 Mar 2008, 10:15 am
Nils Decker wrote: > Jan Welker wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I would like to present you one of my web projects. On > > email2image.com you can convert your email address to an image or to > > JavaScript to avoid spam. > > > > Hi Jan, I do like the project. Seems like an easy-to-use tool. > However, it is not quite true that spam-bots are not able to convert > these images into "spammable" email-addresses. Basically, the > technology you're applying there, can relatively easy be reversed. > Our spamfilter for example, uses the same method just reversed, to > convert images or javascript in an email message, to a readable text. > That happens on the content filter level. > > However, it does make it somewhat more tricky to extract huge amounts > of email addresses. On the other hand, it also makes it more > complicated for your legitimate senders/ customers, to send you an > email. > > > What's your opinion about this site? > > http://email2image.com
Johannes Hubertz Premium Member Group moderator
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Re: email2image.com
Hello and thank you,
perhaps you like to explain, how your tool should work? I cannot imagine how javascript protects my mailbox, sorry.

Do you really think, email-addresses are searched from web-pages? For now, I assume, they are more seen in address-books of clients, don't they?

Thank you for any hints, greetings from Cologne,
Johannes Hubertz
- 28 Mar 2008, 10:19 am
Johannes Hubertz wrote: > Hello and thank you, > perhaps you like to explain, how your tool should work? I cannot > imagine how javascript protects my mailbox, sorry. > > Do you really think, email-addresses are searched from web-pages? For > now, I assume, they are more seen in address-books of clients, don't > they? > > Thank you for any hints, greetings from Cologne, > Johannes Hubertz
Nils Decker Premium Member Group moderator
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Re^2: email2image.com
Johannes Hubertz wrote:
Hello and thank you,
perhaps you like to explain, how your tool should work? I cannot imagine how javascript protects my mailbox, sorry.

Do you really think, email-addresses are searched from web-pages? For now, I assume, they are more seen in address-books of clients, don't they?
Hi Johannes, see below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spambot
"Email Spam Bots collect e-mail addresses from the Internet in order to build mailing lists for sending unsolicited e-mail, also known as spam. A spambot is a type of web crawler that can gather e-mail addresses from Web sites, newsgroups, special-interest group (SIG) postings, and chat-room conversations. Because e-mail addresses have a distinctive format, spambots are easy to write."

In fact, most of the email addresse of spammers are generated through such bots. Obviously, spammers also sell list (they go in packages of 100k) to each other. Last year our company organised the EU Spam Symposium in Vienna and we had a former spammer as a key-note speaker. Got quite some interesting insights into the subject!

Greetings

Nils

Thank you for any hints, greetings from Cologne,
Johannes Hubertz
This post was modified on 28 Mar 2008 at 10:38 am.
- 28 Mar 2008, 10:37 am
Nils Decker wrote: > Johannes Hubertz wrote: > > Hello and thank you, > > perhaps you like to explain, how your tool should work? I cannot > > imagine how javascript protects my mailbox, sorry. > > > > Do you really think, email-addresses are searched from web-pages? For > > now, I assume, they are more seen in address-books of clients, don't > > they? > > Hi Johannes, see below > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spambot > "Email Spam Bots collect e-mail addresses from the Internet in order > to build mailing lists for sending unsolicited e-mail, also known as > spam. A spambot is a type of web crawler that can gather e-mail > addresses from Web sites, newsgroups, special-interest group (SIG) > postings, and chat-room conversations. Because e-mail addresses have > a distinctive format, spambots are easy to write." > > In fact, most of the email addresse of spammers are generated through > such bots. Obviously, spammers also sell list (they go in packages of > 100k) to each other. Last year our company organised the EU Spam > Symposium in Vienna and we had a former spammer as a key-note > speaker. Got quite some interesting insights into the subject! > > Greetings > > Nils > > > > > Thank you for any hints, greetings from Cologne, > > Johannes Hubertz
Markus Zeller
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Re: email2image.com
Cool idea!

The colorpicker does not work on Safari. It does come up, but no selection is possible.
- 28 Mar 2008, 12:38 pm
Markus Zeller wrote: > Cool idea! > > The colorpicker does not work on Safari. It does come up, but no > selection is possible.
Alexander Schestag Premium Member
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Re: email2image.com
Hi Jan,

Jan Welker schrieb:

I would like to present you one of my web projects. On email2image.com you can convert your email address to an image or to JavaScript to avoid spam.

What's your opinion about this site?
http://email2image.com
This solution is not compliant with German law. Due to the "Impressumspflicht" everyone must be able to access the offeror's e-mail address on a website. But blind or visually impaired people with screenreaders cannot access an e-mail address that is hidden inside a picture. JavaScript is also a problem for screenreaders. But even if it was not for legal reasons, I would decline such a solution because I think websites have to be accessible. People with handicaps must not be excluded from websites!

Alex
- 28 Mar 2008, 2:14 pm
Alexander Schestag wrote: > Hi Jan, > > Jan Welker schrieb: > > > I would like to present you one of my web projects. On > > email2image.com you can convert your email address to an image or to > > JavaScript to avoid spam. > > > > What's your opinion about this site? > > http://email2image.com > > This solution is not compliant with German law. Due to the > "Impressumspflicht" everyone must be able to access the offeror's > e-mail address on a website. But blind or visually impaired people > with screenreaders cannot access an e-mail address that is hidden > inside a picture. JavaScript is also a problem for screenreaders. But > even if it was not for legal reasons, I would decline such a > solution because I think websites have to be accessible. People with > handicaps must not be excluded from websites! > > Alex
Alexander Schestag Premium Member
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Re^2: email2image.com
Hi,

Nils Decker schrieb:
On the other hand, it also makes it more complicated for your legitimate senders/ customers, to send you an email.
As I said in another reply: For visually impaired or blind people with screenreaders, reading e-mail addresses hidden in a picture would be impossible. So, this "solution" is no solution to me, because it excludes people from my websites who I want to be able to access them. Besides, this is not compliant with the German "Impressumspflicht".

Alex
- 28 Mar 2008, 2:19 pm
Alexander Schestag wrote: > Hi, > > Nils Decker schrieb: > > On the other hand, it also makes it more complicated for your > > legitimate senders/ customers, to send you an email. > > As I said in another reply: For visually impaired or blind people > with screenreaders, reading e-mail addresses hidden in a picture > would be impossible. So, this "solution" is no solution to me, > because it excludes people from my websites who I want to be able to > access them. Besides, this is not compliant with the German > "Impressumspflicht". > > Alex
Jan Welker Premium Member
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Re^3: email2image.com
Hi,

@ Nils
Thanks for your explanation about spambots.

@Markus,
Sorry I had never tested the website with safari.

@Alexander
An Imprint (Impressum) is available on this site.
Of course, the imprint is not visible for blind people with screen readers and Spambots.
In my opinion, this is compliant with the with the German "Impressumspflicht":

Quote: “Diensteanbieter haben für geschäftsmäßige, in der Regel gegen Entgelt angebotene Telemedien folgende Informationen leicht erkennbar, unmittelbar erreichbar und ständig verfügbar zu halten…”

Jan Welker
- 28 Mar 2008, 11:09 pm
Jan Welker wrote: > Hi, > > @ Nils > Thanks for your explanation about spambots. > > @Markus, > Sorry I had never tested the website with safari. > > @Alexander > An Imprint (Impressum) is available on this site. > Of course, the imprint is not visible for blind people with screen > readers and Spambots. > In my opinion, this is compliant with the with the German > "Impressumspflicht": > > Quote: “Diensteanbieter haben für geschäftsmäßige, in der Regel gegen > Entgelt angebotene Telemedien folgende Informationen leicht > erkennbar, unmittelbar erreichbar und ständig verfügbar zu halten…” > > Jan Welker
Alexander Schestag Premium Member
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Re^4: email2image.com
Hi Jan,
Jan Welker schrieb:

@Alexander
An Imprint (Impressum) is available on this site.
Of course, the imprint is not visible for blind people with screen readers and Spambots.
Yes, and that is not ok for businesslike websites. See the URL and the quote below.

In my opinion, this is compliant with the with the German "Impressumspflicht":
No, it isn't. The following article, especially part III " Impressumsangaben als Grafikdatei" and part IV might be of interest for you:

http://www.jurpc.de/aufsatz/20050078.htm

Quote: "Zwar obliegt die Entscheidung, ob eine Webseite barrierefrei gestaltet wird, mit Ausnahme der Träger öffentlicher Gewalt grundsätzlich jedem Webmaster. Bietet er auf seiner Seite aber Informationen an, die auch von blinden Internnutzern mittels technischer Hilfsmitteln genutzt werden können, so hat er dafür Sorge zu tragen, dass diesen die Pflichtangaben nach § 6 TDG zur Verfügung stehen. Bilder haben nur für Sehende einen Informationswert. Um Verbraucherschutz und Transparenz von geschäftsmäßig erbrachten Telediensten für blinde Menschen zu gewährleisten, dürfen die Pflichtangaben nicht nur in einer Bilddatei enthalten sein. Das Interesse eines Webmasters an der Vermeidung von Spam durch die Bekämpfung von Harvestern hat hier zurückzustehen."

To make a long story short: A handicapped person's right to be able to access an imprint on a businesslike website is more important than the webmaster's interest to avoid spam.

Quote: “Diensteanbieter haben für geschäftsmäßige, in der Regel gegen Entgelt angebotene Telemedien folgende Informationen leicht erkennbar, unmittelbar erreichbar und ständig verfügbar zu halten…”
Yes, and for a blind person, the e-mail address is not easily identifiable ("leicht erkennbar") and directly accessible ("unmittelbar erreichbar") if the information is hidden in a picture. So, on all businesslike websites on which an imprint is needed you are not allowed to provide the imprint as a a picture. You have to provide it as clear text. On private websites, you don't need any imprint at all. So, on these sites, you can do whatever you want.
- 29 Mar 2008, 12:46 am
Alexander Schestag wrote: > Hi Jan, > Jan Welker schrieb: > > > @Alexander > > An Imprint (Impressum) is available on this site. > > Of course, the imprint is not visible for blind people with screen > > readers and Spambots. > > Yes, and that is not ok for businesslike websites. See the URL and > the quote below. > > > In my opinion, this is compliant with the with the German > > "Impressumspflicht": > > No, it isn't. The following article, especially part III " > Impressumsangaben als Grafikdatei" and part IV might be of interest > for you: > > http://www.jurpc.de/aufsatz/20050078.htm > > Quote: "Zwar obliegt die Entscheidung, ob eine Webseite barrierefrei > gestaltet wird, mit Ausnahme der Träger öffentlicher Gewalt > grundsätzlich jedem Webmaster. Bietet er auf seiner Seite aber > Informationen an, die auch von blinden Internnutzern mittels > technischer Hilfsmitteln genutzt werden können, so hat er dafür Sorge > zu tragen, dass diesen die Pflichtangaben nach § 6 TDG zur Verfügung > stehen. Bilder haben nur für Sehende einen Informationswert. Um > Verbraucherschutz und Transparenz von geschäftsmäßig erbrachten > Telediensten für blinde Menschen zu gewährleisten, dürfen die > Pflichtangaben nicht nur in einer Bilddatei enthalten sein. Das > Interesse eines Webmasters an der Vermeidung von Spam durch die > Bekämpfung von Harvestern hat hier zurückzustehen." > > To make a long story short: A handicapped person's right to be able > to access an imprint on a businesslike website is more important than > the webmaster's interest to avoid spam. > > > Quote: “Diensteanbieter haben für geschäftsmäßige, in der Regel gegen > > Entgelt angebotene Telemedien folgende Informationen leicht > > erkennbar, unmittelbar erreichbar und ständig verfügbar zu halten…” > > Yes, and for a blind person, the e-mail address is not easily > identifiable ("leicht erkennbar") and directly accessible > ("unmittelbar erreichbar") if the information is hidden in a picture. > So, on all businesslike websites on which an imprint is needed you > are not allowed to provide the imprint as a a picture. You have to > provide it as clear text. On private websites, you don't need any > imprint at all. So, on these sites, you can do whatever you want.